Unless Fidelity allows access to their API I need to start with another broker for my automated trading.
I will mostly be doing swing trading for now but will be looking at intraday trading in the future. The main problem I had with Fidelity was that they wouldn't let you place more limit orders than your buying power so I had to be at my computer daily to make sure it was running with the quotes monitor. I'll be tracking 100-200 stocks.
Does anyone have any feedback please about these 2 brokers and who they'd recommend? Do either let you put in more limit orders than your buying power and then just cancel any after the max number execute?
How are the connections?
Do both provide streaming data?
Do they provide historical minute data?
How is their customer service?
With the APIs do you have real time access to account positions?
Does anyone use the strategy monitor and then use the API to get account information to see what trades have executed intraday and then use that information to limit the number of trades with either broker and does it work?
Etc.
Thanks
I will mostly be doing swing trading for now but will be looking at intraday trading in the future. The main problem I had with Fidelity was that they wouldn't let you place more limit orders than your buying power so I had to be at my computer daily to make sure it was running with the quotes monitor. I'll be tracking 100-200 stocks.
Does anyone have any feedback please about these 2 brokers and who they'd recommend? Do either let you put in more limit orders than your buying power and then just cancel any after the max number execute?
How are the connections?
Do both provide streaming data?
Do they provide historical minute data?
How is their customer service?
With the APIs do you have real time access to account positions?
Does anyone use the strategy monitor and then use the API to get account information to see what trades have executed intraday and then use that information to limit the number of trades with either broker and does it work?
Etc.
Thanks
Rename
There’s also Alpaca as an option, just saying 🤷🏼♂️
We are working on real time access of account positions for Build 8.
We are working on real time access of account positions for Build 8.
I've never heard of that but am open to learning about it. So let's add that to the list.
Thanks
Thanks
They're both good options. TDA has free stock trades. IB still charges a half-penny per share, $1 min per trade, which I consider essentially free unless you're trading large share sizes.
IB historical data is slow to load intraday historical for more than a few thousand bars, TD is probably better that way. However, I've noticed that TDA streaming is maybe a second or two more latent that IB streaming. I'm not sure what the TDA limitations for streaming are, but IB is 100 symbols. IB has a small data fee that's waived if you trade enough, but if you need more simultaneous streaming subscriptions, you have to buy extra quote packs for that.
IB historical data is slow to load intraday historical for more than a few thousand bars, TD is probably better that way. However, I've noticed that TDA streaming is maybe a second or two more latent that IB streaming. I'm not sure what the TDA limitations for streaming are, but IB is 100 symbols. IB has a small data fee that's waived if you trade enough, but if you need more simultaneous streaming subscriptions, you have to buy extra quote packs for that.
Something else to consider. TD allows access via mobile while logged on with WL and a single account I'm not sure IB does.
IB has additional fees, and does charge commission, TD does not. IB serves many markets with a single account, has low margin rates, and very good availability for shorts.
No bad choice.
IB has additional fees, and does charge commission, TD does not. IB serves many markets with a single account, has low margin rates, and very good availability for shorts.
No bad choice.
MustPlayOptions:
I have posted several times about the desirability and value of WL and Fidelity getting together and providing an API for Fidelity customers to access Fidelity’s excellent database. Fidelity told me that they think it is an excellent idea but they don’t know when they will make that available. I’ll bet WL has a lot of customers that trade with Fidelity and would like to have their data feed.
The WL people have shown some interest in looking into data feeds from other suggested sources such as CSI but have, in my mind, been lukewarm in showing interest in pursuing a Fidelity link. Let's all encourage WL and Fidelity to be a little more proactive on getting Fidelity access.
I have posted several times about the desirability and value of WL and Fidelity getting together and providing an API for Fidelity customers to access Fidelity’s excellent database. Fidelity told me that they think it is an excellent idea but they don’t know when they will make that available. I’ll bet WL has a lot of customers that trade with Fidelity and would like to have their data feed.
The WL people have shown some interest in looking into data feeds from other suggested sources such as CSI but have, in my mind, been lukewarm in showing interest in pursuing a Fidelity link. Let's all encourage WL and Fidelity to be a little more proactive on getting Fidelity access.
Fidelity will not let you do automated short trades.
I used Fidelity for more than 20 years then about two years ago I decided to move my Day Trading money to TDA. I wrote extensions to their APIs from scratch. However, It took me exactly one day to return the money back to Fidelity. mainly, because TDA doesn't allow realtime shorts specially for hard-to-borrow stocks. The salesman who sold me into switching failed to mention it.
Then I decided to to use keyboard simulation to do trades in Fidelity as if I enter them manually.
At the end of each interval I test if WL generates signals then I calculate equity values and run the simulator. It is a lot of coding , but, for me, it was way much reliable than using any broker APIs.
I used Fidelity for more than 20 years then about two years ago I decided to move my Day Trading money to TDA. I wrote extensions to their APIs from scratch. However, It took me exactly one day to return the money back to Fidelity. mainly, because TDA doesn't allow realtime shorts specially for hard-to-borrow stocks. The salesman who sold me into switching failed to mention it.
Then I decided to to use keyboard simulation to do trades in Fidelity as if I enter them manually.
At the end of each interval I test if WL generates signals then I calculate equity values and run the simulator. It is a lot of coding , but, for me, it was way much reliable than using any broker APIs.
I stood silent up 'til now, but this issue with Fidelity data doesn't seem to go away. So let me add the legal side of this issue.
Fidelity does not own the stock market data it uses. So it is totally illegal for them to sell it or give it out. Now they can employ the stock data in their own applications such as Active Trader Pro or WealthLab Pro. And apparently, brokers are allowed to provide a "limited" real-time data feed. But that's the end of it. If you have questions about this, talk to a trademark attorney.
The most we (as data consumers) might be able to get as Fidelity customers is a "discount" from the data broker that Fidelity uses. But their data broker would have to grant that; that decision is not up to Fidelity. And my "guess," because Fidelity is so big, is that their data broker is the exchanges themselves, which don't have enough endpoints to sell data to individual users. (That's why there are data brokers like IQFeed and Tingo, which have the endpoints.) But some motivated person can research that.
Fidelity does not own the stock market data it uses. So it is totally illegal for them to sell it or give it out. Now they can employ the stock data in their own applications such as Active Trader Pro or WealthLab Pro. And apparently, brokers are allowed to provide a "limited" real-time data feed. But that's the end of it. If you have questions about this, talk to a trademark attorney.
The most we (as data consumers) might be able to get as Fidelity customers is a "discount" from the data broker that Fidelity uses. But their data broker would have to grant that; that decision is not up to Fidelity. And my "guess," because Fidelity is so big, is that their data broker is the exchanges themselves, which don't have enough endpoints to sell data to individual users. (That's why there are data brokers like IQFeed and Tingo, which have the endpoints.) But some motivated person can research that.
@sdbens20
There are existing topics for Fidelity data/API. No need to plug it again here. Let's please get back on topic.
There are existing topics for Fidelity data/API. No need to plug it again here. Let's please get back on topic.
Thank you all for the feedback so far. Please add more if you have it.
One thing in response to the legal issue. Even if they can't supply 5he data feed they can supply an API that allows trading on their accounts so it's still a valid request from them to open up their API. We can get data from elsewhere and keep our accounts there.
I am very interested in the keyboard simulator and would consider buying buy that if it's for sale. Could that be used or position verification?
So when automating with WL6 I used to do about 75 trades a month. With WL7 it's calculating about 300 trades per month. That may be off and I'm going to look into it if I can, but it sounds like IB wpuld be a big hit on commissions unless I can get the number of trades down.
For now I don't need shorting.
What do you mean access to mobile? Fidelity has a mobile app too that I always had access to. Do you mean you have access to WL on a mobile somehow?
Is anyone using Alpaca?
Thanks
One thing in response to the legal issue. Even if they can't supply 5he data feed they can supply an API that allows trading on their accounts so it's still a valid request from them to open up their API. We can get data from elsewhere and keep our accounts there.
I am very interested in the keyboard simulator and would consider buying buy that if it's for sale. Could that be used or position verification?
So when automating with WL6 I used to do about 75 trades a month. With WL7 it's calculating about 300 trades per month. That may be off and I'm going to look into it if I can, but it sounds like IB wpuld be a big hit on commissions unless I can get the number of trades down.
For now I don't need shorting.
What do you mean access to mobile? Fidelity has a mobile app too that I always had access to. Do you mean you have access to WL on a mobile somehow?
Is anyone using Alpaca?
Thanks
You can get a free Alpaca account for paper trading - works great! Alpaca data is NOT good, but the broker interface works great.
Re: mobile
Nothing for WL7 on mobile. He means that you can access TDA's mobile app without disturbing the desktop connection. Anyway, WL7 doesn't even use TD's desktop app (ThinkOrSwim) to connect.
On the other hand, accessing IB's TWS mobile app will interrupt your desktop TWS connection that WL7 uses to connect.
(Untested: Connecting WL7 to the IB Gateway instead of TWS. It's possible that a TWS mobile connection woudn't disconnect the Gateway - not sure!)
Re: mobile
Nothing for WL7 on mobile. He means that you can access TDA's mobile app without disturbing the desktop connection. Anyway, WL7 doesn't even use TD's desktop app (ThinkOrSwim) to connect.
On the other hand, accessing IB's TWS mobile app will interrupt your desktop TWS connection that WL7 uses to connect.
(Untested: Connecting WL7 to the IB Gateway instead of TWS. It's possible that a TWS mobile connection woudn't disconnect the Gateway - not sure!)
I agree with Eugene, we're getting way off topic. For what it's worth we used to have full streaming access for at least 250 tickers at a time when WL and Fidelity were married whether it was legal or not. In any case we don't need Fidelity data for an API but that can be another thread.
In any case, so far TDA is coming out way ahead of IB given the commissions, interference with the phone app and other limitations.
Anyone use Alpaca? Experience with it?
Negatives of TDA to watch out for?
Thanks again
In any case, so far TDA is coming out way ahead of IB given the commissions, interference with the phone app and other limitations.
Anyone use Alpaca? Experience with it?
Negatives of TDA to watch out for?
Thanks again
Actually this discussion is about the pluses and minuses of the various APIs for live trading. The data is just a non-integral part of that API since any data source would work.
In any case it was at least 250 and I agree it would be nice but please let's leave the data discussion and get back to my topic.
Thank you
In any case it was at least 250 and I agree it would be nice but please let's leave the data discussion and get back to my topic.
Thank you
QUOTE:Currently, there is not any WL7 brokerage extension for Fidelity. (I wish there were.) Read my quote again. To clarify, I'm saying WealthLab7 brokerage extension design supports "very limited" streaming data from any broker (in general) if the broker supports it. You're totally misunderstanding me at every angle. I'm done.
“the WealthLab7 brokerage extension supports that.” Please show me how to access the Fidelity brokerage extension.
Let's continue with broker comparisons. That's interesting.
For closure - I went with TD.
The free trades, and streaming without limits is what swayed me.
I would've stayed with Fidelity and would still go back if they had an API. It just doesn't make any sense that they don't.
The free trades, and streaming without limits is what swayed me.
I would've stayed with Fidelity and would still go back if they had an API. It just doesn't make any sense that they don't.
Are you now using TDA for automated trades? Then you use your WL7 strategy and then it send buys and sells to TDA. Is it working well for you?
I'm working on it. I just opened the account on Thursday and transferred money to it. I also got the streaming quotes from TD to work using the instructions for the development account.
Weirdly, the development account uses a completely different registration. I have no idea if the 2 accounts are attached or not yet. There was a warning that the development account for streaming would have access to my regular accounts but it never asked me to link them. I guess I'll find out somehow but again I'm not sure how since there isn't an Account window yet on WL7 so as far as I can tell I can't tell what if any actual trading account is linked. I only know the developer one is for the quotes.
Before I try to do anything automated though I need to make sure my WL7 strategy accurately copies my WL6 one. Right now there's a bug in the positions and the alerts because I'm having to manually round all my prices to 2 decimal points or it screws everything up, but that is already fixed in build 7.
If that looks good the next step is to try to do a single trade and see what happens.
Weirdly, the development account uses a completely different registration. I have no idea if the 2 accounts are attached or not yet. There was a warning that the development account for streaming would have access to my regular accounts but it never asked me to link them. I guess I'll find out somehow but again I'm not sure how since there isn't an Account window yet on WL7 so as far as I can tell I can't tell what if any actual trading account is linked. I only know the developer one is for the quotes.
Before I try to do anything automated though I need to make sure my WL7 strategy accurately copies my WL6 one. Right now there's a bug in the positions and the alerts because I'm having to manually round all my prices to 2 decimal points or it screws everything up, but that is already fixed in build 7.
If that looks good the next step is to try to do a single trade and see what happens.
Automated trading works great for TD, IB, Alpaca, and Kraken. However, just know that brokers provide data and streaming that they feel is enough to support trading, so there are limits to both - no broker gives you unlimited data requests like with Fidelity back in the day.
This is a little off topic, but I'm making a point about broker data - Build 7 is going to have a blazing fast Strategy Monitor - 500 symbols finish in 2 seconds with [IQFeed] Streaming (7 or 8 seconds with Streaming Bars).
Don't try this with more than a few dozen symbols at TDA. It won't work. Also, a typical IB subscription gives you 100 concurrent streams; you have to buy quote packs for more.
Summing it up - the broker adapters are great for:
- Auto Trading, and,
- Limited historical data and concurrent streams
If you have heavy real-time and intraday requirements, the brokers are not going to get you there.
This is a little off topic, but I'm making a point about broker data - Build 7 is going to have a blazing fast Strategy Monitor - 500 symbols finish in 2 seconds with [IQFeed] Streaming (7 or 8 seconds with Streaming Bars).
Don't try this with more than a few dozen symbols at TDA. It won't work. Also, a typical IB subscription gives you 100 concurrent streams; you have to buy quote packs for more.
Summing it up - the broker adapters are great for:
- Auto Trading, and,
- Limited historical data and concurrent streams
If you have heavy real-time and intraday requirements, the brokers are not going to get you there.
Some real-life experience with TDA and WL.
I scan the entire market EOD, with a EOD provider. Normally end up with 50 - 100 signals, push those to Quote manager and utilize TDA streaming data to fire the orders when market price is approached. That scenario works well.
I scan the entire market EOD, with a EOD provider. Normally end up with 50 - 100 signals, push those to Quote manager and utilize TDA streaming data to fire the orders when market price is approached. That scenario works well.
Ok, good to know. That's what I did with Fidelity and WL before.
Cone, maybe this should go in another thread but since you mentioned it, I'd like to learn more about the difference between the strategy monitor and streaming quotes when it comes to doing what TraderGuy describes. I.e. monitor 1 strategy, have 100 signals, and trigger only when time during an open market. What's the best place to learn about the differences. I know what they do but not why one method would be better than another.
Thanks
Cone, maybe this should go in another thread but since you mentioned it, I'd like to learn more about the difference between the strategy monitor and streaming quotes when it comes to doing what TraderGuy describes. I.e. monitor 1 strategy, have 100 signals, and trigger only when time during an open market. What's the best place to learn about the differences. I know what they do but not why one method would be better than another.
Thanks
QUOTE:
Cone, maybe this should go in another thread
A new thread would be optimal please.
P.S. Here's some idea:
https://www.wealth-lab.com/Discussion/Strategy-Monitor-Lucky-Build-7-5894
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