Fidelity decommissioning WLP in June 2020?
Author: andyrust
Creation Date: 5/8/2020 8:38 PM
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andyrust

#1
Hi

I called Fidelity many times to get auto trading feature enabled in WLP. One representative, tried to send the auto-trading entitlement to WLP but it didn't display under WLP help section. Nor it showed under ATP. After a lot of debug on Fidelity side the representative told that they have put Auto-trading on hold since March. He didn't know the reason - could be due to pandemic or head count issue.

On calling Fidelity again, another representative informed me that there are not taking any new auto-trading requests anymore since Fidelity is decommissioning WLP in June 2020. I mentioned why, they didn't have any answer to it and he also didn't mention if there is any alternative to WLP.

I read an old post back from 2018 which also had rumors/confusion regarding WLP being discontinued.

So is Fidelity really going to decommission WLP this year? There is no news of this in the Forum or on Fidelity website.

Thanks.
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kelvinyip

#2
Cone, Eugene ?
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superticker

#3
Auto-trading is not enabled by default. I don't think Fidelity grants anyone an auto-trading entitlement until they have used Wealth-Lab for over a year or so. There's just too much risk there.

I've been using Wealth-Lab for five years, and I still like to remain in the loop on all Buy trades. There's too many complex considerations to review before pulling the trigger, especially now with this weird market environment.

Wealth-Lab is an excellent tool when you know how to use it. In fact, it may be one of the best tools in its class. But it's not for everyone; you need to be analytically minded. I think it would be a shame to discontinue it for those that know how to use it. That would just force us to go elsewhere.
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Cone

#4
We're not involved with Fidelity's business planning, but when we have some information, we'll pass it on.
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kazuna

#5
Auto-trading was available for customers who trades 500+ per year and has $100K+ assets in the account.
Apparently Fidelity has raised the requirements recently and it now requires $1M+ assets in the account.
Do you meet the new requirement?
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andyrust

#6
I met their requirements and Fidelity representatives were about to grant me auto-trading by pushing the agreement into WLP for me to accept the auto-trading terms and agreements. But that process didn't go through since auto-trading applications are on hold.
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kazuna

#7
Please keep us posted as your auto-trading request goes on.
I was once considering about the audo-trading but only found that they raised the requirement.

As for Fidelity considering decommissioning WLP, I'm wondering if anyone else had a chance to contact Fidelity.
I cannot believe they ever decommission WLP in next month as I believe they have been working on Fall update release.
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gregChen

#8
I called Fidelity this afternoon for enabling auto-trading. The Fidelity representatives told me he done and asked me to wait for 15 min to check. However, I still did not see the "on" yet from order tool.
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Kontakt

#9
I had the exact same experience as andyrust's experience with Fidelity last week. You have to call several times until you get to a person who really knows what to do, instead of just telling "ok, done, go ahead and restart WLP and it should work". However, apparently finding the right person is not going to work anymore either because I was also told that auto-trading function will be discontinued in June 2020 so they are not accepting applications/requests.

I asked about plans for WLP software itself, and was told that decision for discontinuing auto-trading was final, but a decision for WLP software was not made. I told them that I find great value and utility in WLP and that it is definitely a primary reason that I am with Fidelity. I read the older forum discussion a few years back when people said "call and let Fidelity know about the value of WLP to you to encourage them to not decommission WLP." Maybe it is that time again.
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kazuna

#10
Did they tell you why they are discontinuing auto-trading?

I'm just guessing but there might be some folks who lost money due to the recent volatility, especially the circuit breakers may have screwed up auto-trading folks. I'm glad to know that they are not discontinuing WLP software but I still really like WLP to offer auto-trading for sophisticated traders. Once you start daytrading many symbols (say more than 10 symbols), it becomes non-practical to place so many orders manually.
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superticker

#11
QUOTE:
I had the exact same experience as andyrust's experience with Fidelity last week. You have to call several times until you get to a person who really knows what to do,...
Could you share with us who you talked to? Many Fidelity support people are not that familiar with Wealth-Lab.

QUOTE:
I asked about plans for WLP software itself,... but a decision for WLP software was not made. I told them that I find great value and utility in WLP and that it is definitely a primary reason that I am with Fidelity. I read the older forum discussion ... where people said "call and let Fidelity know about the value of WLP to you to encourage them to not decommission WLP." Maybe it is that time again.
It would be nice to continue development on Wealth-Lab. There are many refinements that would be helpful.

In addition, I would be willing to pay an annual fee for the development of a 7.0 version of WLP if Fidelity commissions one. Fidelity might consider ongoing development of a more advanced version for those willing to pay. For those unwilling to pay, they can continue to use WLP 6.9.
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Kontakt

#12
They did not give a reason why autotrading is being discontinued. I also think that the recent extreme volatility may have pushed them in this direction.

At Fidelity support, I talked with someone from the trading desk, under active trading services, who was familiar with WLP. He tried hard to be helpful but eventually notified me of the dead end when he learned about it.
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instarac

#13
I spoke with a Fidelity representative who answered when I asked for Wealth Lab Pro support. I asked if Fidelity had plans to decommission WLP in June and the rep said that nothing has been announced.
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lanatmwan

#14
WLP was WAY ahead of its time. I really wish Fidelity would see the value and commission a cloud based version.
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Eugene

#15
Then we'd have to hear concerns from one half of the users about safety of their trading systems in the cloud.

The other half would complain about inavailability of all data providers but Fidelity in the cloud. Putting them there would mean data redistribution in its purest form.
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superticker

#16
QUOTE:
... value of a cloud based version.
The problem with a cloud version is that it would break all my custom numerical analysis and statistics functions that are dependent on the Math.NET package. It also won't interface with R for statistical analysis. What about support for custom optimizers in a cloud solution? How would that work?

Moreover, a cloud solution may execute slower than a powerful workstation version since a dedicated workstation has some speed advantages over a time-shared frame.

---
But for "simple stuff," a cloud solution may be the right choice. And there are already several cloud solutions available.

The ideal choice would be to have one code base (say employing the Core .NET framework instead of the Windows .NET framework for portability) that could be split between an application version for power users that's extensible and a cloud solution for those that just want to use the code "as is" without any customizations. And it is architecturally possible to do that. The beauty of this two-platform, one-code-base approach is that the cloud solution would appeal to new users. And when they outgrow it and need extensibility, they can then move to the more customizable application-based solution. So the simple entry product sells the more powerful, customizable product.

To some degree, you have that now where the beginner starts with the Rules-base paradigm of WL then, when he outgrows that, he precedes to the Code-based paradigm of WL. The WL user grows into the next level, which is the genius behind WL's flexible design.
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asagar00

#17
I had a very similar experience to the ones above.

I just called Fidelity's Active Trader platform to get authorization for live trading. The representative tried to get me setup but had difficulty doing so -- he then reached out to a senior representative in his department.

They informed me that Fidelity is reviewing whether or not to continue with WLP. Until then, they are not processing new applications till they make a decision. They were not sure of the timing of the decision, but felt that they might make the decision in Jun-2020. But they did send me a copy of the application to mail in (though it will be on hold till a decision is made).

--> *** But even now, in Orders I show both Paper Trading & Live Accounts. Under Accounts, it lists all my accounts -- both the paper accounts & live accounts. Does this mean that I can use WLP to trade live even now?

I intend to contact my Fidelity rep so he knows about the value of WLP. I hope everyone in this community does the same.

As a backup (in case Fidelity goes a different way) maybe the owners of WLP can put some feelers out to Interactive Brokers and others.
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Cone

#18
QUOTE:
Does this mean that I can use WLP to trade live even now?
Yes, you can trade live with Fidleity using Wealth-Lab Pro. You just cannot Auto-trade live without that entitlement. You'll know if you have that entitlement if "Live Accounts" appears in the Auto-Trading dropdown in the Orders tool.

If you wish to trade with WLP, I recommend that you use the Auto-Stage option to send Alerts to the Orders tool. From there, you need to manually select the order(s) and then "Place Selected". If you have multiple accounts, make sure to "Set Account.." in the Strategy Explorer to assign the strategy to a specific account.

QUOTE:
owners of WLP
Fidelity is the owner of Wealth-Lab since 2004.
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asagar00

#19
Hi Cone,

Noted. I show only paper trading in the Auto-Trading entitlement.

I really hope they continue with WLP. I will certainly talk to my account rep about this.
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cevans77

#20
Does WLP work at any other brokerage firms?
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Eugene

#21
For all practical purposes, no.
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jduke

#22
I had live trading turned on in February and it has been working well. I will write to Fidelity emphasizing its value to traders. Worth a shot.

For those using WLP outside the US, I believe they do connect auto-trading to other brokers.

If Fidelity does indeed turn off auto-trading, it would be nice to see community extension / APIs that enable trading via other brokerages.
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Sarath1

#23
when I realized my account only allows "auto-staging" and not "auto-placing/trading" I called Fidelity Active Trader team today and representative started asking the "Purpose" first and when I told I do multiple tens of trades every day and I want auto-decision to depend more than simple Price based curve to leverage more considering volume and multiple metrics and he verified bunch of other things and even told finally
>> I qualify for my mentioned Purpose and my investment profile(risk-taking etc) and even qualify for my given Assets Value and number of trades

But after taking ~20 minutes to review with their senior representatives/team, he told currently not taking any new requests for Auto-Trading and to wait till JULY.

I had to fight saying I put already so much efforts developing code and now all ready and importantly 1 more month waiting till JULY means I will have to waste lot of time repeating manually being multiple tens of trades every day which also simple price-curve based not matching my full requirements with Fidelity/ATP etc...

Even they deny when I said I am ready to go Fee-based service considering value add saving my so much manual efforts...

Anyway the representative was kind enough to hear all concerns and told will try to get back soonest as possible...
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Eugene

#24
Sad to hear about your experience.
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Sarath1

#25
hm! Thanks and hope to hear better from them sometime soon.....
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ranch

#26
I reached to two Fiedlity representatives, and was told that they will no longer enable Auto Trade, and potentially discontinue Wealth-Lab pro (maybe integrated into Active Trade Pro). So sad ....

Any information from your guys?
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msapel

#27
My call to them today about registering my installation resulted in a response that they will no longer support WLP 6/30/2020. They wouldn't even register me so that I could download some tools and work on developing some strategies to back test until the end of June.
I expressed my dissatisfaction with the lack of another offering to allow us this level of interaction with the data & markets.

So WLP knows this obviously by now. What are their plans? Where can they take their program/service to?
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superticker

#28
I think they should should support WL on at least a subscription bases. That should be the minimal offering.
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kazuna

#29
If they are truly discontinuing WLP, my hope is Fidelity to allow US customers to obtain WLD and offer Broker and Data provider for Fidelity account. Otherwise, many of us here have to consider leaving from Fidelity and moving to the competitors (IB, TS etc).

Once Fidelity stops supporting WLP at the end of June, WLP will stop working right away?
Hopefully they will give us some time before WLP stops working.
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LenMoz

#30
post deleted
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superticker

#31
QUOTE:
4. Mentioned very indefinite plans to link with Active Trader Pro, an idea discussed here...
https://www.wealth-lab.com/Forum/Posts/Active-Trader-Pro-Integration-31769

Well, I don't "think" Fidelity customers are going to be able to place Fidelity trades directly from WLD like you can from WLPro. So Fidelity users are now going to have to employ ATP to place their actual trades (I think). If that's the case, it would be nice to link WLD with ATP so Alerts from the WL Quotes window appear in ATP.
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kazuna

#32
Hopefully, Fidelity works with MS123 to develop Broker and Data provider so that we are all happy again as long as you are willing to purchase WLD copies and pay the maintenance fee (that definitely I will).
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kelvinyip

#33
I am trying to understand what it means practically. Wealthlab pro(WLP) == Fidelity linked Wealthlab developer(WLD) ? I cannot purchase WLD in USA. I may have mixed up the terminology as well.. Practically, where do I get intraday data if Fidelity data is gone and how do I even get WLD if I am not allowed to purchase if I live in USA ??
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asagar00

#34
I am getting contradictory information from Fidelity. I had sent in an application for automated trading & have been following up on status.

1) In following up a couple of weeks ago, the Active Trader Pro (ATP) agent announced that they were discontinuing support but automated trading etc would still be supported;

2) Today the ATP agent called one of their ATP specialists on the line & he informed to me:
* Fidelity will discontinue all support for WLP & transfer back to WLP community;
* We will lose access to Fidelity as a data provider;
* No automated trading
* The decision was finalized in the past 2-weeks and will be effective by end-Jun or early Jul-20

As Fidelity owns WLP, I am not clear (and the agent was not sure) if they would give the freedom to WLP community to negotiate new arrangements with other brokers.

But it looks like Fidelity is closing the curtain on WLP. I really hate to post this, but it's better that everyone knows the facts.
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steve_de3

#35
I spoke with 2 reps at Fidelity today about WL-Pro and support. They have no support for WL-Pro at Fidelity, and in addition both reps told me that WL is being discontinued for use (contract is expiring) July 31, 2020. They mention that WL-International would still be available (I don't know if that exits).

To summarize my basic points here:

1. Fidelity is not renewing WLP contract after July. SO I guess I'm looking for a NEW PLATFORM.
2. If data from Fidelity is different for ATP and WLP, then probably I should be looking for another platform (one that also includes seconds and ticks in the data stream).
3. It feels like WLP is now underperforming for Fidelity traders because of the above mentioned issues. Too bad.

Anyone have better data providers to use with WLP (equities, options, futures) ?
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Partha

#36
Eugene, Cone

If WLP is no longer being supported by Fidelity after July and we lose access to Fidelity as a data provider, what alternatives exist currently in WLP for data sources besides yahoo?
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Eugene

#37
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kazuna

#38
If I need 10+ years intra-day and 20+ years daily data, IQFeed would be the only option?

Do you happen to know if I can share one IQFeed account on multiple WLD computers as long as the data is download on one computer at a time?

I would like to run WLD on multiple computers for optimization.
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Eugene

#39
There can only be a single active IQFeed session. You'll be kicked out of other sessions on the other computers by IQFeed. The WL IQFeed provider will have to reconnnect a terminated session when a data update request is received (on another computer).

Let's not discuss data provider alternatives in this topic, please.
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steve_de3

#40
I've been crawling through the alternatives on this site, but I don't see anything as cookbook-complete as Fidelity's current service (even with it's current limited streaming especially options data). So I seems like WLP is DIW for myself. I'm not happy about it. But then, who cares if WLP users are happy. Apparently not Fidelity.
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Eugene

#41
IQFeed is the solution for U.S. stock, futures, indices, options and forex data (EOD and intraday) for WLD users. It's a paid alternative, of course.

Let's not discuss data provider alternatives in this topic.
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traderray

#42
I just talked to Fidelity. The rep was reading from a document and gave me the following:

1 WLP is to be decommissioned at the end of July. There are decline numbers of people using it and Fidelity has no future interest in it..
2. There will be no data etc from Fidelity after that date.
3. WealthLab International will be offered to us at no cost until the end of 2020.
4. The decision was made in early June.

This brings up several questions.

1. Why is it taking so long to notify us. Based on what I understood from her, I have lost almost half of the time available to work on the transition.
2. What differences are there between WLP and WealthLab International? Will we receive a detailed list?
3. Will I be able to run WLP and WealthLab International concurrently to validate that all my things are working?
4. Fidelity has not shown much support for WLP over the last few years. Will we start to see more improvements now that Fidelity is no longer involved?

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steve_de3

#43
I sort of asked those questions, but no WLP response yet. As of now, the only thing Fidelity will have is ATP, which I'm not finding very good, it's sort of old and bulky, with many bugs, hangs, etc. I think Eugene mentioned IQFeed as a replacement to Fidelity, but it has a lot of choices for data and can be quite costly. So, I feel like backed in a corner and need to look for a new brokerage for all my accounts.

That's how it looks for me anyway.
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Eugene

#44
@traderray, even we (MS123 LLC) do not have answers to each of your questions. As to question #2, it's been on the Wiki FAQ for over a decade:

QUOTE:
Wealth-Lab Developer is sold outside of the U.S./Canada by MS123, LLC under license by Fidelity Investments, and can not be purchased in the U.S./Canada. Wealth-Lab Pro, the U.S. version, is available to qualified active trader accounts at Fidelity free of charge. Wealth-Lab Pro can not be purchased; see here if you're eligible. "Pro" and "Developer" are in effect the same application except that "Pro" is delivered with special integration for Fidelity price and fundamental data as well as for automated trading with Fidelity Investments.


Once the terms are finalized every WLP customer will get a welcome email with details on 'enlisting' as WLD user. We will step in and help with the transition.
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kazuna

#45
QUOTE:
WLP is to be decommissioned at the end of July.
It's better than the end of June but I really wished if Fidelity gives us a litte more time, say several months or so. If you are using WLP for the backtesting only, one month would be enough to migrate. However, I use WLP for semi-automated daytrading and sending orders as well, I need more time to migrate to the new platform. But I guess Fidelity doesn't consider WLP to be used for trading, otherwise they would have never thought about decommissioning it in such a short period of time.

QUOTE:
There are decline numbers of people using it and Fidelity has no future interest in it..
It makes sense. Everybody is daytrading these days without proper testing. They will eventually learn the lession and realize they will need a backtesting platform like WLP. Unfortunately at that time Fidelity won't have a tool for those customers.

QUOTE:
There will be no data etc from Fidelity after that date.
My hope was Fidelity to collaborate with MS123 to migrate WLP customers to WLD with introducing Fidelity broaker and data providers. Unfortunately, they are likely shutting down not only the software platform but also the infrastructures (data and order servers).
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Eugene

#46
I understand your frustration. We're all hard pressed for time for such a transition.
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barney

#47
Wow. This is very sad news.

I actually just downloaded WLP from Fidelity a few days ago and wondered why it was so difficult to find on their website.

I was really looking forward to using it, as it seems like a great product, and now I read this. :-(.

Anyway, I really feel for you long time users. I hope things work out for all.
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vvardog

#48
I have also posted questions to Fidelity (eg., why no heads-up so we can attempt to find alternative platforms?)
But I would like to hear back on this thread for potential workarounds and other possible "solutions" from both users and support folks.
I've only been using WLP for about a year (intensely for the last 6 months) and find it very useful for backtesting and custom charting. I'm using the C# programming interface, which is extremely flexible and powerful.
The support I've received has also been awesome.
Thanks in advance
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Panache

#49
My Fidelity Regional Brokerage Consultant hasn't heard anything about ending Wealth-Lab Pro access. Is this really a done deal or are MS123 and Fidelity still trying to work something out?

If it is a done deal, I realize this is a major event for MS123, but it would be helpful if you could start a thread to update users about where things stand from time to time.
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LenMoz

#50
You can find an impact analysis I started in post #4, here... https://www.wealth-lab.com/Forum/Posts/Yahoo-ticker-for-Arms-Index-TRIN-28433/Page/1#209954

I, too, called Fidelity Active Trader Support today. They don't know anything! The rep I talked to said the document he was reading still indicated June 30. I tried to get info on the record through a chat, but that rep said he couldn't comment on chat and gave me this phone number. 877-907-4429.

My take on all this. Negotiations. Fidelity thinks it has this great wonderful software. We all know its a mature fat client, with a long list of never-worked bugs, with a major design flaw (post-strategy cash management). I'll build something to migrate my key strategies.
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Panache

#51
I wouldn't go that far. As an added benefit to trading at Fidelity, it's fine. However, before I purchased a subscription to Wealth-Lab Developer, I'd want to see what else is out there.
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